Do you have a question about writing fantasy, science fiction, or horror? A question about writing, editing, or publishing in general? Have a great tip for your fellow authors?
This is your chance to ASK PHIL—and join in a conversation with your fellow authors.
But please, this is, and always will be, a blog about WRITING, so I will need everyone to keep politics, religion, reviews, self-promotion, spam, and anything else that isn’t specifically about writing off this page. There are LOADS of other places on the internet to talk about any of that other stuff.
That being said, please leave your questions here as COMMENTS, and I will respond as soon as I can. And please feel free to comment on comments, and, well . . . you know how to work the internet.
—Philip Athans
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Just a psychological question, Mr. Athans: When you started writing, did you get the sensation your writing was worthless, despite the good comments of other people?
It happens to me as I read what I’ve written. I like it and I think other people find it enjoyable too, but then I take a look at the Lord of the Rings or Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, and get the sensation that I’ll never get to be as good as Tolkien or Williams, no matter how hard I try. Do you have any counsel about this situation, besides “keep writing”?
Yes, I did get that feeling when I started writing, and the entire time including right now. If you’re reading your favorite books, especially stuff that’s widely considered classics of the genre like Lord of the Rings, and think your writing isn’t as good, that isn’t necessarily an instance of a lack of self-respect. I read books all the time that make me think, “I should be this good,” or “I should have thought of that,” and I honestly think that’s a GOOD thing. It’s you saying: “I want to be better at this.”
Creative writing is not something that can be “perfected.” No matter how long you do it, you’re still getting better at it–that is, if you recognize that you always have something to learn, and always give yourself a next higher level to strive toward. Once you’ve decided you’ve got this thing locked, and every word you write is pure, unassailable genius, you’re in big trouble.
So, yes, KEEP WRITING but also keep thinking you could be better at it, and keep working toward that goal. You will get better, but you will never finish learning.
Salient advice, Phil. I agree. It’s good to be wowed by other writers. It’s what keeps us alive as readers, and what propels us to improve as writers. Which is pretty much what you said.
I think one of my biggest issues with my writing is knowing what the heck I’ve written after I’ve written it. Because I loathe writing product descriptions for Amazon, summaries for interviews and blog posts, and, above all, I despise pitching my stories orally. I didn’t spend a year writing my WiP just to give someone a five-second summary of it so they can take another one to two seconds to decide if they think I’m a “real” writer.
So, how do you figure out what’s you’ve got once you’ve gotten it? Have half a dozen beta readers write a description of what it’s about as if they were simply telling a friend? And then collate the similarities and join them with my own?
Actually I think that’s a great idea–giving it to trusted readers and having them do it. Traditionally, it’s the editor who writes cover copy, catalog copy, etc. I did it for so many books at WotC I’ve long ago lost count, and it’s not a skill everyone has. But then authors are indeed asked to essentially write marketing copy in order to get it in front of agents and editors in the first place.
There’s very little you can do to avoid some level of formula in that sort of thing, and it does have to distill what may be a massive epic fantasy into less than a hundred words, but the good news is that the “gatekeepers” who read that (agents and editors) know:
1. You aren’t necessarily an experienced copywriter.
2. There’s always more to a novel than its log line or elevator pitch.
So if all you’re doing is identifying the hero, the villain, and the central conflict no one in the publishing biz is going to think, Oh, what? No subplots? No worldbuilding? But they will be able to see if you can form a coherent sentence (I done writted a fictional novel), are not insane (this is the greatest book of all time, like Harry Potter meets 50 Shades of Grey), and at least a smidge original (Bulboo Blaggins leaves Halflingshire in search of the Single Ring…).
Ultimately if you can’t identify you hero and what he/she wants, your villain and what he/she wants, and why they end up in conflict, your book probably has more significant problems than the lack of a decent cover letter.
Any plans to participate in events up in the True North Strong and Free, where winter is perpetually coming (aka Canada)? Particularly the Vancouver area? We’re just a quick drive from Seattle, so no flying, and all you’ll have to deal with is a border guard asking if you’re bringing any guns with you…
I LOVE Vancouver. I’ll see what’s up there and volunteer for something.
ok, so i know this isnt exactly about writing but im in high school and i really want to work at wizards of the coast like you. so im wondering what is work like at WoTC and what things i should do to prepare myself to work at a publishing company. thanks.
For the record, I no longer work at Wizards of the Coast, but all in all it was a terrific place to work, and I still have a number of friends there. There were times when I was just blown away that I was sitting at a table talking about D&D and it was my job–they were paying me to do that.
For a high school student I would give this basic advice: GO TO COLLEGE. Go to the best university you can get into and study English, Journalism, or some combination of Liberal Arts/Humanities. I think you’ll find that editors and writers alike come from varied academic backgrounds. I went to film school, for instance, and I worked with history majors and so on, and one editor with a master’s in cultural anthropology.
While you’re getting that education stay current with the genre. Play RPGs and TCGs, and video games, and read not just WotC and other shared-world/tie-in books, but be conversant with the fantasy and SF genres in general. Go to conventions and attend the seminars where you can interact with editors, authors, and game designers. Pay attention to what goes on in convention booths, read all the little pamphlets, flyers, and giveaways for a sense of how companies like WotC present themselves.
You’re still young so you have plenty of time to just SOAK IT IN. But without that degree you will not even be considered for a staff position, so keep those grades up and get that degree. Even if you end up in an entirely different field, an education is essential and something no one can take away from you.
Hi Phil! This is a great idea.
What’s the most common mistake/error you saw as part of WoTC or have seen from your students? What one question about writing do you hear most often and how do you respond?
All in all I think the most common mistake writers make is a passive beginning. I advise anyone who’ll listen to begin a story or novel in media res (in the middle of things). Too many manuscripts begin with what my friend and former co-worker Mark Sehestedt termed: weather report/fashion report/travel report. These are stories that begin with some variation on “it was dark and stormy night,” then move on to a loving description of the hero’s flowing blond hair and shining silver armor, then a dry recitation of where he’s going and where he’s coming from. In other words: scene setting.
Better to start your story with the same hero hanging off the side of cliff while an army of orcs throw rocks at him — THEN filter in who he is, where he came from, and where he’s going as it becomes relevant. You get as little as one sentence, rarely more than one paragraph, and surely no more than one page to really hook an editor–especially with a short story. GRAB THEM!
As for the most common question it tends to be some variation on “How much money will I make?” or “What are my chances of success?” The answer to both questions is “Slim to none, unless you work your butt off and are very lucky.” But the latter only ever follows the former.
This is about writers and depression. Are you ready? Here it comes.
This past October 30th proved to be a day that would change the rest of my life. When my thoughts are cleared of unfiltered emotions I can say that in the long-run this change will be for the better but right now it hurts like nothing has ever hurt before. I can’t go an hour alone with my thoughts without running to one social networking site or the next, looking for someone to talk to in order to distract myself.
Sleeping comes in 2 to 3 hour spurts in which I wake up just as exhausted as when I closed my eyes. Eating has become just as much of a chore. I’ve gone from wallowing in misery and woe to feeling positive and motivated and back again; sometimes all within the span of an hour. Don’t worry; I’m getting to the writing part.
Looking at the great writers of the past from Mark Twain to Robert E. Howard, many of them suffered through depression, alcoholism, drug abuse, or some combination of the three and suicide often seemed to follow sometime after. So on to my question/s.
Are we writers somehow predisposed to things such as depression and substance abuse? Are these the trials we must suffer for our chosen craft? And more importantly, could we truly write without it? Sure, anyone can write a sentence describing Joe-schmo walking across the street to the store. But could R.A. Salvatore have conveyed Wulfgar’s struggle with demons if he himself had not struggled with his own at some point in his life?
I guess my biggest question is how do we take these negative emotions and use them in a positive way? And how do we make sure we do not become overwhelmed by them?
Thank you in advance. A section like this is truly a generous idea and it speaks volumes of you as a writer and a person.
-Shawn
(As a side note, I understand that not just writers seem predisposed to such problems. Many people in the creative field seem to be, from artists and musicians to directors and actors.)
I have written here a number of times about my own struggles with depression and anxiety and have found some science to back up the idea that we writers seem more prone to it than most, but I’m not sure anyone has a clear answer as to whether writers become depressed, or depressed people become writers.
One of the many “hardest parts” about being a creative writer, and I suspect a journalist as well, is that you often have to dig into the darker side of humanity. As you said with a character like Wulfgar, or with villains too, you have to write, often in some detail, about people doing terrible things and/or confronting the most difficult circumstances imaginable. And ultimately you have to dig into the darker corners of your own psyche and experience in order to give that stuff the appropriate emotional weight.
I have a feeling that substance abuse comes from an attempt to self-medicate. Rather than calling on the good advice of a healthcare professional, we wind up in the bottle, or worse. But we live in a world where that help is available–a world that Robert E. Howard wasn’t lucky enough to see.
I’m doing a million times better just having gone to my doctor and getting a single prescription. For some of us, it gets a little more complicated, a little more difficult, but there is help out there and once you realize that depression and/or anxiety has found its way into your life you have to reach out for that help.
Thank you. You’re absolutely right.
What’re your thoughts on hiring a freelance editor to review ones work before submission? Is this frowned upon by publishers?
I don’t think that’s frowned upon by publishers, who don’t really even ever have to know you took that step. If you feel your manuscript could benefit from a professional edit, and you have the money to invest, I’d say go ahead and do that. In fact, I’m working on an editing project for an author right now that falls (at least partially) into that category.
And what I mean by “at least partially” is that that author is still weighing the pros and cons of sending that to editors or publishing it himself. Of you’re self-publishing, to my mind, that edit step is NOT optional.
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Hi Phil,
My question is about writing and editing.
Writing question is:
When you are writing, how do you get past writing awkward scenes, and stuff that do not make sense to the story? I find I am doing that a whole lot lately and want to know how to fix it.
Editing question:
I am about to graduate from UNT with a Bachelors in Professional and Technical Communications, and I have to build a portfolio online not only for school, but also for my future career as an editor.
I was wondering, how do you show off your editing in a portfolio?
Thats all for now, thank you Phil.
Tina
In regards to awkward/extraneous scenes as you’re writing: Don’t worry about it … yet! I tend to be a write-first-ask-questions-later kinda guy. If you’re writing along and thinking, Hmm, not too sure about this… just keep going. It’s always better to write first THEN edit than to edit as you write. People who do that tend to get caught up in a loop with the first few thousand words, going back over stuff in a vain attempt to get it perfect before moving on to the next chapter. That way lies madness.
Get the whole thing down–just get it out of you. When you have the whole story–or even the whole BOOK–done in rough draft form you’ll be able to more clearly see what needs to be revised, cut, or added, based on a bigger-picture view. Once you feel it’s ALMOST there, give it to a trusted first reader for a fresh set of eyes. There WILL be problems you couldn’t see. It’s not actually possible to edit your own work.
—–
To be honest, I’m struggling a bit with my own editing resume. It happens to be a big item on my to do list for the next two weeks. Keep an eye on http://www.athansassociates.com to see what I came up with. I’d appreciate comments and suggestions!
Phil,
I absolutely love your Guide to Writing Sci Fi and Fantasy. Your book is exactly what I need in order to progress.
I know werewolves, vampires, giants, dragons, elves, dwarves, etc are all within the public domain and are available for any writer to use without permission or express use.
There are so many more that seem not so cut and dry as being “available”. For example I am not so sure about bugbears, gelatinous cubes, kua-toa, wererats, displacer beasts, duergar, etc,
My books will be set in the realm of fantasy and will certainly reflect various iconic fantasy races and monsters. I’m not sure of where that line of “free” material is versus “copyrighted” material.
Would you be able to recommend a source that might have a more comprehensive list as to what encompasses public domain material for writing fantasy?
I appreciate any help you can provide.
Sincerely,
Chris
GREAT question!
I’m not sure that a comprehensive list exists, but it should. There are some monsters that are proprietary, like the beholder and mind flayer from D&D, but many, like the bugbear, are taken from mythology. The trick with mythical beasties is to give them your own fresh take. The D&D bugbear was INSPIRED by the old tales, but has become something unique to that game. I’d leave your D&D Monster Manuals on the shelf and refer to them only to make sure that your bugbears are different from their bugbears.
One of my ten favorite fantasy novels, The Stolen Child, is about hobgoblins, and those hobgoblins are nothing even remotely similar to the D&D hobgoblin, and much more influenced by myth and legend, but then given a unique and clever twist.
The fast way to at least identify if a particular monster comes form the public domain of myth and legend is a quick Google search. Even the often incorrect Wikipedia will at least tell you that such and such first appeared in, say, Greek mythology. Anything that comes from another author’s book, or from a game, etc., you’ll want to pass on.
Philip,
Your advice has been invaluable in my journey to write my first (yes, I’m an optimist, there will be more than one) fantasy novel. You specifically admonish us to ‘show, don’t tell.’ I have written my book using that approach. However, when I go to my bookshelf and reference the many outstanding, and highly successful, fantasy novels I’ve grown to love, I notice many of those authors failed miserably at that advice. Yet those books are great to read and were very successful.
Is success more about a great story than it is about the mechanics of how it’s told? I’m sure there are many books written that are examples of technical mastery, yet are uninteresting.
Between a great story that breaks the rules of good writing, and an ‘adequate’ story that follow the rules of Good Writing, what is your recommended approach?
Absolutely, a great story is most important. Advice like “show don’t tell” is good general advice, but the trick is always to know when to bend the rules, or break them, always doing what’s best for your story and characters. That having been said, there are some great books–classics–that wouldn’t be published today. Styles and expectations change.
Thanks for presenting at ECCC last weekend. I greatly enjoyed your panel discussions and just ordered a copy of your book, “The Guide to Writing Fantasy and Science Fiction”. – Looking forward to its arrival.
Thanks!
Thank YOU!
Hi Phil,
I just recently finished reading your incredibly helpful book on writing fantasy and science fiction, and I am really enjoying your blog. I am working on an epic fantasy book. I feel like I have gotten some great insight from you and others (really loved S. King’s “On Writing”) on the writing end of things, but I’m lagging behind in understanding the publishing side.
Are there some good resources that you can point me to for gaining some understanding about the publishing process and how to go about it. I’m a novice, so I’m looking for the 101 kind of information – where to begin, when during the writing process should i start thinking about publishing, how to choose an agent/agency, what an agent should do for you, how to look for a publisher (or should the agent do that?), etc.
I would appreciate any help you can provide, which is a double blessing since you’ve already been so helpful. Thanks!
Don
Thanks, Don, it’s always great to hear that the book was helpful.
Great question, too, about the business side of publishing. You’ve inspired me to write more on that part of it here, so you’ll have that to look forward to. But in the meantime, you should check out Writer’s Digest University. I’ve done a couple of tutorials for them, and they have plenty more, covering a wide range of topics, and all coming from industry professionals, including authors, agents, editors, and marketing folks.
Here’s the link:
Look on the left side under the heading “WORKSHOPS BY GOAL” and you’ll find “Traditionally Publish My Work” — some valuable info in there, from a reliable source.
Oops.
Looks like that link didn’t work. here’s the URL:
http://www.writersonlineworkshops.com/
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